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Why Digg is Done and Newsvine Isn’t

I’ve been a Digg user since the beginning. Back in the days of the original Digg, Digg was the place for tech news. Stories broke on Digg before anywhere else, and the users always strived to find the most interesting stories. You could spend hours on Digg, learning about new and interesting things. It was the Slashdot Killer.

Somewhere over the past six months Digg has lost its way. Digg is no longer the place to read tech news, it’s the place to find out what’s going on, on the internet. It’s where you go to post the 50th “dupe” comment. It’s the site to vote down the good stories and digg the stories that have nothing but a picture. It’s where you go to argue Mac vs PC or Firefox vs Opera on every single story, whether its relevant or not.

I use to visit Digg to find out about tech news. I would read just about every single home page story, because it was all interesting. Since I joined and Digg has grown in numbers, you just don’t find those informative, interesting stories anymore. All you find is “ChEck out ths c00l Fl@sh game…”. Because of this lack of quality, I’ve decided I’m no longer going to be an active digger. My digging shovel is officially retired.

Ok I should be honest I’m not giving Digg up completely. I’m only going to be checking out the stories that I find interesting in the Digg front page RSS feed. I’m also going to continue listening to Diggnation, because face it, Diggnation is hilarious. But, when it comes to things like monitoring Digg Spy, those days are over.

So why the sudden change? I’ve realized something. When you have a site like Digg, which gives users complete control, abuse is imminent. The Average Joe is an idiot and can’t tell the difference between a good story and a story that’s complete BS. If one person says a story is crap, you instantly have ten people backing him, because everyone just plays follow the leader. There’s a reason why websites have editors; it’s because the user never knows what they want. I’ve seen stories on Digg get voted lame one week, and the next week the story is the most popular story. Complete control is a failure in the hands of idiots.

So, if I’m done with Digg what am I switching to? Newsvine. Why is Newsvine better? It’s better because it does not give complete control to its users. The bulk of the intelligence behind the site isn’t users, it’s smart programming. Now to understand how the programming works you first need to understand what’s on the site.

The site is split into two, Associated Press articles and what they call The Vine. AP articles are automatically inserted into the website, while The Vine is a combination of user’s articles and seeded links. User’s articles are written directly on the site about a recent event, a hot topic, or just an opinion. Seeded links are in a way similar to Digg, because users scour the internet for interesting stories and then submit them to Newsvine.

In both cases, the Vine and AP articles are automatically managed by the website. The website figures out how the articles should rank by a number of factors. The freshness of the story, how many times people view the article, and how many people vote for the article are all factors which go into the rating. Did I just say vote? Yes, that’s correct. You can vote (and report) articles just like Digg; but since the votes aren’t the only factor, stories are less likely to be subject to user stupidity. This system works very well, and just because no one has voted for the story, doesn’t mean it won’t be the top story.

Besides the improved quality of stories, there are a number of reasons why Newsvine trumps Digg. First of all, Newsvine isn’t just tech. Newsvine is more like your typical news website. You’ll find politics, sports, and, yes, technology. Newsvine also reads like a typical news website. The stories aren’t sorted by date, they’re sorted by relevance. The biggest story is the first story listed, and includes a picture, just like any other news site.

Another reason why I love Newsvine is you don’t have to leave the site to read most articles (only seeded articles are not within the site); the articles appear within the familiar Newsvine interface. Another neat thing is the articles aren’t just text. Often on AP articles you’ll find photos complete with captions of the event, and on certain stories you can even find video and audio clips of the event. This additional content enhances the story, and helps to give you a complete picture of what’s going on.

Finally, Newsvine is owned and operated by a bunch of web designers from major news sites. The founders of Newsvine have all come from websites such as ESPN and ABC News. Since they come from major news sites, they know what needs to be done to keep users under control. They’ve all dealt with large scale systems, and have the skills to make Newsvine a reality. They’re not going to let Newsvine follow the path of Digg.

Now I should mention, currently Newsvine is in a closed beta. This is because all of the moderation systems aren’t fully implemented and certain things still need tweaking. While this may seem like a turn off, I think it’s great. The people who have been invited to Newsvine are dedicated to making it a success. Due to that fact, stories are interesting, comments provide additional information, and the overall feel of Newsvine is optimistic. If you’re interested in joining Newsvine, let me know. I have a few invites, but I’m only going to give them out if I feel you’re going to help make Newsvine a success.

If you like what you’ve read please make a stop over at Digg and digg this article. Digg isn’t going to change unless we do something about it.

35 Comments

  1. 1 Jonathan on Feb 1, 2006 at 11:12 pm:

    I completely agree with you Ron. Digg has been so awful lately. And slashdot is full of sissies who love to fight with each other on why xyz is better than abc and they act like they are 10.

  2. 2 datter on Feb 1, 2006 at 11:31 pm:

    Good article, I agree completely.

    I’m especially happy to see you offering newsvine invites… but only to those you think might be worthwhile inviting. I see too many people on digg offering free invites to whoever wants them, which is completely counterproductive to what newsvine is trying to do… and in fact what they are asking people to do. They take the time to ask that people not give the invites out at random, glad you paid attention.

    Again, great article.

    datter

  3. 3 maciej on Feb 2, 2006 at 12:23 am:

    i totally agree

    I used to enjoy going through all of the articles but now i find myself checking digg once in a few days. It isn’t about technology anymore. I don’t remember finding articles a few months ago with the comments “I seem to do better at this when I’m drunk.” It seems that this site has basically become a myspace rejects. Where’s the good news? WHY?! WHY?! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY?!!!!

  4. 4 Paul Stamatiou on Feb 2, 2006 at 2:09 am:

    Excellent article. I feel like Kevin Rose should read this to know what people think about it. The Digg crowd has become immature and I feel like Newsvine is more mature.

  5. 5 Dinesh Cyanam on Feb 2, 2006 at 10:00 am:

    Really good article Ron…..very true I used to love digg a lot…but now I need to DIGG digg to get find the good articles…all that I see now is hard drives 50% off at compusa and amazing wallpapers and all that crap…:sad:

    The idea behind newsvine looks very promising…I would really like to try it out…So if I can get an invitation I would be greatly obliged…

  6. 6 Cheyne on Feb 2, 2006 at 11:23 am:

    You just summed up everything I think. I don’t digg anything anymore, i am a newsvine user now :)

  7. 7 cavemonkey50 on Feb 2, 2006 at 1:51 pm:

    Dinesh Cyanam, I just sent you a Newsvine invite. Take good care of the power it brings.

  8. 8 cavemonkey50 on Feb 2, 2006 at 2:38 pm:

    Paul, I think we may be getting our wish. I’ve seen quite a few hits from http://test9.digg.internal/. Maybe Kevin Rose isn’t checking it out, but at least some of the Digg administrators are.

  9. 9 cavemonkey50 on Feb 2, 2006 at 8:27 pm:

    You guys should check out this article:
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/web2explorer/?p=108

    It looks as if Kevin Rose is going to be addressing this recent downfall of Digg. It will be interesting to read part two tomorrow. Hopefully, with these new upcoming features of Digg, Digg can slowly return to the site we used to know.

  10. 10 Dinesh Cyanam on Feb 2, 2006 at 11:41 pm:

    Thanks a lot for the invite Ron…….

    NV is pretty good………:cool:

  11. 11 Jacob on Feb 3, 2006 at 12:29 am:

    If people are looking for invites then Amber MacArthur (www.ambermac.com) has some kind of super invite account that Mike Davidson gave to her after being interviewed on Inside The Net – http://thisweekintech.com/node/4011

  12. 12 Marty on Feb 3, 2006 at 5:19 am:

    Agree on every point. I do feel that as of late digg has gotten very tiring, and full of immature comments.

  13. 13 Stijn on Feb 3, 2006 at 8:23 am:

    I just dont read comments anymore on Digg…

  14. 14 SavoryMedia on Feb 3, 2006 at 2:19 pm:

    Digg is full of some of the most kneejerk morons I’ve ever seen. The maturity level is somewhere around “larva”. Infinitely annoying.

    Still got any of those Newsvine invites? ;)

  15. 15 midbach on Feb 3, 2006 at 4:28 pm:

    I don’t think Digg is totally useless but I do agree that the idiots are taking over the place. Hopefully they get things under control sooner, rather than later.

    BTW, part 2 of the Kevin Rose interview is now up at http://blogs.zdnet.com/web2explorer/?p=109

  16. 16 Karl Prigge on Feb 3, 2006 at 5:39 pm:

    I couldn’t agree more with what you said about digg… but as for newsvine, I’m not convinced that it’s the solution — you can tell that from the front page (one giant AP photo of a random news story) as opposed to what I use these sites for (actual links) — which is why I’m still a happy redditor.

  17. 17 Saiajin on Feb 3, 2006 at 6:18 pm:

    I know I am in Fear of pissing off the wrong geek over there…no restraint…punks….at best…at times….I mean with great power comes great responsibility……

    But If I just Bitch I too am no better…..what can we do to help Digg? I have to read the Articles posted in the previous comments about The K. Rose Interview…. But I hope we can save DIGG!!

    ( But in the mean time someone throw me an invite to newsvine):oops:

  18. 18 cavemonkey50 on Feb 3, 2006 at 6:37 pm:

    Saiajin, a invite is waiting for you now.

  19. 19 Phil Crissman on Feb 3, 2006 at 7:11 pm:

    I’m with you, I quit going to digg about three or four weeks ago. I don’t even look at the rss anymore, I figured out that the rare story I was interested in was also on Slashdot or del.icio.us/popular, or reddit.com.

    I like the newsvine recommendation, but don’t forget Slashdot; sure, it’s got a crufty looking design. That aside, there are still a whole lot of people reading and commenting on slashdot, which means that the highest rated comments actually tend to be pretty interesting.

  20. 20 Jeremy on Feb 3, 2006 at 7:25 pm:

    I would love to join newsvine, but, alas, i have no invite. Is there a good soul out there that will throw me a bone? :)

  21. 21 MonsterMan on Feb 3, 2006 at 10:14 pm:

    You also might want to check out News Bump which is like Digg but with more interesting content.

  22. 22 Jeremy on Feb 3, 2006 at 11:41 pm:

    oops… forgot to leave my email for that invite that I KNOW someone will be kind enough to send my way :)

  23. 23 Computer Guru on Feb 4, 2006 at 2:32 am:

    Hey..
    Very interesting article, I have to say I agree for the most part, but the very front-page of Digg is generally quite good.. Nothing beats engadget though :P

    Do you have any Beta Invites left?
    If anyone else wants to share an invite, could you please send it to?
    (Dear Spambots: Have fun spamming… Homemade spam filter at work :P )

  24. 24 J.Michael on Feb 4, 2006 at 9:51 am:

    I listened to the Inside the Net interview the other day and NewsVine does sound promising.

    I’m not so convinced digg can survive, because it’s “problem” is simply the [apparent] age of its’ audience. It’s illustrated in the article titles, article descriptions, and the painful, *painful*-to-read comments.

    “Knee-jerk” is exactly the way to describe seemingly 99% of all digg users. They’re quick to post a story for fear someone else will “beat them to it,” resulting in an article that wasn’t completely read by the submitter; an unimaginative, un-spell-checked title, and a description consisting of nothing more than “The title says it all.” And the comments… to find one useful comment with a mirror link or a link to the real article – bypassing the blog post the knee-jerk submitter posted – you’ve got to wade through a hundred comments consisting of nothing more than “LOL” or “yeah.” None of which, I might add, make any kind of sense without nested commenting.

    Anyway, enough of my rant. It’s great to hear others speak their minds about this too. I also am not so crazy about digg anymore, but diggnation (the podcast) is frikkin awesome. I’ve never missed an episode and hope it goes on forever.

    J.Michael

    PS. Anyone with a newsvine invite, I’d be much appreciative :) I’d hate to hit up Amber. I know she’s getting hundreds of emails about it already.

  25. 25 cavemonkey50 on Feb 4, 2006 at 11:04 am:

    For the people that left their email for Newsvine invites, I sent you all an invite and then removed your email address from the comments to protect you from spam.

  26. 26 J.Michael on Feb 4, 2006 at 11:18 am:

    Thank you very much cavemonkey50. I’m probably going to spend my Saturday afternoon with NewsVine :) After the Inside the Net episode last week, I can’t wait to dive in.

    J.Michael

    (and thanks for removing my email address, I apologize for making you do it twice :)

  27. 27 bonhamled on Feb 4, 2006 at 11:23 am:

    I havent tried very much newsvine yet (although i have an invitation). It is very very interesting.

  28. 28 TAD on Feb 6, 2006 at 4:23 pm:

    The big problem with NewsVine is their Terms of Service. If you add your own content, they become the owner of it and can “exploit” it and use it without attribution, etc. It has a lot of promise, but as long as they keep that verbiage in the ToS, I can’t use it to its full extent.

  29. 29 Shanti on Feb 6, 2006 at 5:14 pm:

    Digg just needs a comment moderation system like Slashdot.

    That way the “Me, too!” and “No digg.” posts get modded down and useful / funny / interesting ones are all you have to wade through in the comments section.

  30. 30 Calvin Tang on Feb 7, 2006 at 2:08 pm:

    TAD, to clarify the issue of ownership: Newsvine does not actually own copyright of your content. We have a license to use and re-publish your content (for example, in a ‘Best Posts of 2006′ scenario). You still own and are free to do anything you want with any content you publish on Newsvine.

    cheers,

    Calvin
    Newsvine Co-Founder

  31. 31 Hexxenn on Feb 7, 2006 at 3:33 pm:

    Anyone else a reddit user? Good alternative to Digg as well.

  32. 32 icedtrip on Feb 7, 2006 at 4:59 pm:

    I agree 100%. The idea behind Digg has always been a good one, but the way that it is setup with almost full user control is just shooting them in the foot daily. I find myself turning to ArsTechnica and other places first and last before turning to Digg. Diggnation is great as I do somewhat trust Alex and Kevin to pick up some good articles to point me to. To me, they’re all the Digg I need.

    Newvine sounds like it will be on top of this little problem that Digg suffers from. To be seen, but you have to have a little faith in what is new.

    If you have anymore invites, send one my way. I’m always looking for better ways to improve my way and everyone else’s way of getting their news.

  33. 33 cavemonkey50 on Feb 7, 2006 at 7:11 pm:

    @icedtrip
    I sent you an invite and removed your email to protect you from spambots.

    Now I just thought of something else Newsvine has going for them. There is no “point system”. On Digg users have a number which tells other users how many front page stories they’ve had. Digg also has user list ranked by the best Diggers.

    Newsvine does not have a rating system, and I think this is a good thing. There is less reason to post crap on Newsvine just to get a front page story. Users should be posting stories because they think other people will find them interesting, not for more rep.

  34. 34 Calvin Tang on Feb 10, 2006 at 7:18 pm:

    cavemonkey, I’m sorry to disappoint you but we will be adding user ratings to Newsvine. This will act as a way for users to determine the credibility of a particular contributor’s content. We’re already using these ratings behind the scenes for things like the ranking of seeds and posts in the Vine.

    For instance, a user who has written 40 great posts and seeds that have a ton of votes and have also been cause for many good discussions should be considered a ‘trusted source’ when it comes to their 41st post. Another user who has written a few posts posts and seeds, most of which have been reported as inappropriate or inaccurate and has been reported for malicious behavior, should carry an indicator of the quality/reliability of their past contributions and behavior.

    You’re right that people will end up doing things with the intent of improving their user rating, but hopefully these are the same types of things that other users will find of value to the community.

  35. 35 Tony on Mar 16, 2006 at 8:41 am:

    I prefer Digg over Newsvine, but I wish both had mobile versions of their content.

18 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. PaulStamatiou.com
    on Feb 2, 2006 at 11:19 pm

    Why Digg is Done and Newsvine Isn’t…

    Ron over at CaveMonkey50 has a great editorial talking about digg and Newsvine. Digg used to be great but right now it is just seen as a group of immature kids that flame and spam everything. Read this article and leave a comment, I think the masses …

  2. Col’s Weblog » Bye Bye Digg
    on Feb 3, 2006 at 5:51 am

    [...] So, unfortunately, I’ve joined the ever increasing number of people who no longer read Digg or subscribe to it’s feeds. I don’t have time to wade through ten tons of shite every morning – I want a clear and accurate description of the story and a link to read more. [...]

  3. [...] Here’s some more noise about the impending doom of social bookmarking gone bad. [...]

  4. Save the World » I will digg no more…
    on Feb 4, 2006 at 11:16 am

    [...] This isn’t simply because I finally got a story to the front on digg. It is simply that digg is too stupid. As much as it pains me to admit it; the story which I submitted really sums it all up. The fact that something about a connect 4 game can make it to the front page of digg is pretty damn stupid. This sudden turnaround comes from an entry by ‘cavemonkey‘ (I was linked via blankbaby.com), in which he comments on the general stupidity of people, and why some links are said to be lame, then the next time get 1000 diggs. Also, quite correctly, he identifies that digg suffers from the copycat syndrome, i.e. one person will say ‘this sucks’ therefore the next 50 people will post with ‘yep..this sux’. It is depressing the quality of stories on the digg front page. Right now, three out of four are something pretty un-tech related and something you would never see on Slashdot. One is ‘how fast can you type’ (a flash game), two is ’slow motion water balloon popping’ (a video), and four is ‘google snack rooms’ (photos). Digg seems to be becoming the collection of ‘cool’ stuff that people come across, or to put it another way a version of del.icio.us that is simply not as good, and more exclusive. Check out the original cavemonkey post, he talks about a new service called newsvine, which I hadn’t heard of before, but turns out you need an invite. But until then, it’s back to Slashdot for me… [...]

  5. Can Someone Send Me A Newsvine Invite Please…

    If any readers are registered for the Newsvine beta could they please email me an invite.  Newsvine sounds like it could be an interesting service, based on what cavemonkey has to say about it:…articles are automatically managed by
    the website….

  6. [...] read more | digg story by Oddstar | posted in asides Trackback URL | Comment RSS Feed Tag at del.icio.us | Incoming links [...]

  7. newsvining it up at
    on Feb 5, 2006 at 7:18 am

    [...] After reading a post from cavemonkey50.com, I knew it was time to say goodbye to digg and hello to newsvine. [...]

  8. Newsvine at MB Blog
    on Feb 7, 2006 at 8:22 am

    [...] I am really liking Newsvine, it is the more adult version of Digg. So I think that Digg is Done and Newsvine Isn’t. Thought I still think that SlashDot is King. [...]

  9. [...] From CaveMonkey50 (via PaulStamatiou.com) [...]

  10. [...] read more | digg story [...]

  11. [...] A basic overview: The site is split into two, Associated Press articles and what they call The Vine. AP articles are automatically inserted into the website, while The Vine is a combination of user’s articles and seeded links. User’s articles are written directly on the site about a recent event, a hot topic, or just an opinion. Seeded links are in a way similar to Digg, because users scour the internet for interesting stories and then submit them to Newsvine. (read more) [...]

  12. [...] Why Digg is Done and Newsvine Isn’t » cavemonkey50.com [...]

  13. Newsvine is Out of Beta » cavemonkey50.com
    on Mar 2, 2006 at 12:33 pm

    [...] Previous to today, Newsvine was invite only. I was lucky enough to obtain an invite early on, and I can proudly say the site you will be seeing today has greatly evolved from the site I started with. Newsvine now has tons of features to help you enjoy the site better, and prevent it from going down the gutter like other community driven sites. [...]

  14. Gary Slinger » links for 2006-03-04
    on Mar 3, 2006 at 11:30 pm

    [...] Why Digg is Done and Newsvine Isn’t » cavemonkey50.com “I concur”, as I’ve been known to say… (tags: news newsvine) [...]

  15. Digg is Back! » cavemonkey50.com
    on Mar 4, 2006 at 2:19 pm

    [...] Thanks to a new commenting system introduced today, Digg is finally starting to return to the site I once loved. While the quality of the stories could still use some improving, the major downfall of Digg, the comments, has now been solved. From what I’ve seen today, the crappy comments are being buried while the great comments are now sticking out. That’s the way it should have been from day one. Well, better late than never. function openSpellChecker() { // get the textarea we’re going to check var txt = document.getElementById(‘comment’); // give the spellChecker object a reference to our textarea // pass any number of text objects as arguments to the constructor: var speller = new spellChecker( txt,”http://cavemonkey50.com” ); // kick it off speller.openChecker(); } [...]

  16. philcrissman.com
    on Sep 26, 2006 at 12:00 am

    Alas, poor Digg; we hardly knew thee….

    Here’s some more noise about the impending doom of social bookmarking gone bad.
    I’ve reiterated my dissatisfaction with digg many times, so no need to go through that again; I’m not surprised to see a post like this, since I found it …

  17. [...] As you may remember, I used to have a problem with Digg. At one point I stopped going to Digg for a while, but then things changed and I returned. While I wish I could say things have been fine since then, I can’t. Digg has reached yet another growing pain. [...]

  18. [...] CaveMonkey50 Read Comments (2) | Trackback | Comments [...]